We let a young buck named John Williams doStar Wars, the composer deadpans.
I think hes going places, I think hes really got a future.
Johnson, however, remains gracious.
Rian Johnson, left, and Nathan Johnson.Getty
I got to be there for the scoring sessions, he enthuses.
Yeah, it was bananas.
NATHAN JOHNSON:It actually doesnt really go back to before Rian.
Rian Johnson and Nathan Johnson attend Playlist 2022:. Photo: NETFLIX.Photo by Matt Winkelmeyer/Getty Images for Netflix
DEADLINE:Isnt that very meta?
Because surely that meant you were making parodies of parodies?
We thought we were brilliant.
We didnt realize we were terrible.
DEADLINE:What did Rian play in those days?
We were really young then.
Rian played piano and banjo eventually, and we started actually writing songs of our own.
We had this project that we referred to as The Preserves, making folk songs.
But we werent drawing lines between all these different things.
We would pause everything and un-pause everything at the same time.
That was how we would edit our movies together.
DEADLINE:How did Brick come about?
It was very much telling a story.
So he was like, Hey, do you want to scoreBrick?
So I just took what I knew from that world, which was at that time very DIY.
The wholeBrickscore was recorded in my bedroom with a PowerBook and one microphone.
We had wine glasses instead of a string section and filing cabinets and mallets instead of timpani drums.
DEADLINE:Was it a case of scoring to what you were seeing?
Literally just looking at the movie, looking at the images, and producing the music in real time?
JOHNSON:It was, to some degree, but I was also writing themes.
I would record something and send it to him.
DEADLINE:How did that work out?
DEADLINE:How did you learn to do that?
Were you looking at other movies to see how themes were used?
It came from … Gosh, thats a good question.
It was a pretentious concept album record!
[Laughs] I dont think most composers approach it that way.
Also, we were talking a lot about Tom Waits as a reference.
So it suited our recording approach.
I remember a story about Tom Waits.
So the fact that we were recording with a shitty microphone in my bedroom served that purpose.
Rian was like, What do you mean?
We I didnt know that, at that point, all zero-budget movies were scored using a sample library.
That just wasnt my background, so I just got my friends together and we recorded it all.
When did you start developing your skills as a film composer?
JOHNSON:It was a fluid process.
Honestly, I still think about it in terms of songwriting.
But forBrick, I did do that.
So I feel like its been a long transition.
You practice it by doing it, then you learn what works and what doesnt.
DEADLINE:Does Rian give you homework?
But in a weird way, I remember forBrick, he sent meThe Third Man.
Partly because thats afilm noirthat has a zither score, which doesnt make any sense on one level.
Thats been the same thing for each movie.
I was like, Oh, no.
Everyday normal sounds that are so quiet that were not used to hearing them.
Usually, I feel like, Oh, thats not what I was expecting at all.
That feels a little bit uncomfortable.
Which probably means its going to be a good garden to plant.
DEADLINE:Well come back to Looper … How did you prepare for that one, and what conversations did you have about the music?
JOHNSON:No, no, no.
I have been making music for as long as I can remember, but Im not classically trained.
Its just very much coming from the songwriter band background.
For me, my approach is really, always, that the story is king.
Am I excited about working with this director?
DEADLINE:Music was a very, very big feature of that film, which it wasnt with Brick.
DEADLINE:Am I right to think that The Band was a big influence on that soundtrack?
The Band, Dylan, Nino Rota.
Although, we definitely get back to that vibe specifically inGlass Onion, I think.
DEADLINE:Now, Looper…
I dont actually remember much about the score for Looper, and I dont really know why that is.
Its a tonal atmospheric score.
So with Rian talking about the idea of broken TVs and What if its one chord?
after doingBrickandBloom, I was beginning to feel like I understood how to score a movie.
WithLooperits about field recordings.
DEADLINE:What were the motifs?
DEADLINE:So then we get to Knives Out.
Was that your first time with a string quartet?
How do you approach a whodunit?
But as Rian has said, thats not whats compelling about these movies.
And thats a broad thing that applies really to bothKnives OutandGlass Onion.
We didnt want to go in this direction of just a big blurry wall of sound in the background.
Everything had to be really precise.
So, with the string quartet, thats probably the defining musical piece ofKnives Out.
It starts the movie.
But I got them to really dig in with their bows.
DEADLINE:Thats obvious in the opening sequence, but how does it develop through the film?
Were hearing interlocking lines from the winds passing off to the brass, passing off to the strings.
Essentially, its like using the orchestra in a very close precise way.
JOHNSON:I dont remember, but definitely not until after.
Im glad for that, because …
I just am like, Oh, my gosh.
What is this going to be like?
Its like getting to read one of my favorite authors, getting to read his next project.
So Im just purely reading it as a fan.
How did you do that?
I was just so excited that he didnt rehashKnives Out.
I think, musically, what that does is it clears the slate.
So its like starting the whole conversation again with Rian.
Its like, OK, what are we going to do for this?
Whats the vibe going to be?
DEADLINE:Before we get to that, what is Blancs theme?
JOHNSON:[Whistling] Its a very simple short motif.
Theres also Blancs hunting motif, which is a little bit more cheeky.
You get a hint of his smile.
DEADLINE:So now we come to the new characters.
How do you write for them?
JOHNSON:Well, the first thing was not a character theme, it was just the main theme.
That was the first one, and it actually took me the longest to crack.
I was working on that while I was over in Greece and in Serbia.
Its bigger, its more lush.
Its the same theme, but a little bit more beautiful.
Dukes version of The Disruptors theme is low and chromatic.
Its really fun to toss around to all of them.
The core for this one is Andis theme.
It has to be beautiful, yet broken.
So her theme, I think, is really the emotional crux.
DEADLINE:And am I right I thinking that Andis theme gets stolen by Miles?
I was thinking about that and I suggested to Rian, What if Miles steals Andis theme here?
He just cackled with glee, because its operating on a couple levels.
I like the idea that he needs someone elses emotion to tap into, to make this believable.
So that felt very appropriate for that moment.
DEADLINE:Glass Onion is probably the first of Rians films that has a big climax.
How did you build towards that?
We startedKnives Outwith a string quartet, so this was our chance to keep it in this world.
We start it with a small string quartet, but then everyone else starts joining in.
DEADLINE:What directions do you give to the orchestra at that point?
The horns are a little bit going like elephant horns, over the place.
So working with that is just like, We want to feel all of that rage.
We want to feel all of that coming out of your instruments.
Each time they do it sounds different, but it feels like…
I dont know… like spiders fluttering down a window.
Like, OK, this is a little bit off the hook.
Were stepping away from perfection and were about to just let some raw rage come out.
DEADLINE:How many times do you read a script before you embark on a soundtrack?
JOHNSON:Multiple times.
I love script stage.
But for me, I always ask that they send the script first.
DEADLINE:Final question: what can you reveal about Knives Out 3?
DEADLINE:So youre going to wait until he gives you the script?
I think about it as a pyramid and Rian is up at the top, but hes notactuallythe top.
Which is not always the case, but its something that I really appreciate.
So the music needs to be doing what it does because of the story.
