Getting that recognition for his bruised and battered brethren might be his next production.
A mythology grew with each film.
When you co-directedJohn Wickwith your then-partner David Leitch, how much of that franchise potential did you see?
Chad Stahelski, Laurence Fishburne, Keanu ReevesMurray Close
CHAD STAHELSKI: [Laughs].
Lets see … almost none.
But when you step into the directors seat?
Donnie Yen and Stahelski
Its a very different world.
We came in full of blatant arrogance and confidence: We got this!
How hard could it be?
Turns out, it is pretty hard [laughs].
How do you balance all this and still keep all the cool shit?
We made a shit ton of mistakes.
And having the confidence to keep pushing through.
To your point, we were handed a script that was very spare.
The body count was three or four people.
They worked in the gold coins because you couldnt trace the value of em, that kind of thing.
And it had a little bit of the service industry thing.
I was a huge fan of Greek mythology and a massive J.R.R.
Someone was doing a version far out in the future, withDune.
How do you make a modern-day fantasy, with a mythology?
Jimmy the Cop is my favorite scene in the first movie… We thought that was interesting.
And then the movie ended and we had no idea.
So were like, oOh, that was a good one-off.
And then the movie comes out and people liked it, fortunately.
DEADLINE:Did the second film come together quickly?
STAHELSKI: We didnt know if we were gonna do a second one.
Do you want to do this?
It took months to crack it.
It wasnt until we started writing the second one that we realized something.
That started with the second one, the idea to strip it down and go big Greek mythology.
We could add all these layers in.
DEADLINE:I remember the originalHighlandermovie, which youve tried to crack as a remake.
Great mythology presented in that film, which allowed for historical flashbacks and an eventual there-can-be-only-one outcome.
Being retroactive is hard.
Whats different between Wick and that?
With Wick, you werent serving seven seasons of TV plus two spinoffs plus five films.
Now,Highlanderas a TV show now would be amazing.
Youd have time to build it out, see all those flashbacks and the potential of it.
Its trickier when youre trying to do something with that big of a mythology.
But I agree, that would be one to take a really big stab at.
Here, we just had the opportunity to really learn as we went on with Wick.
DEADLINE:Each one got bolder and bigger.
STAHELSKI: I always come back to the why do another one?
Theres gotta be more story to tell.
We wanted to do this love letter to films we love.
Im a huge David Lean fan, so I just wanted to do something there.
He was like, f*cking, I love the Moroccan desert scene in the third one.
Then Keanu just looks at me and gives me this evil little smile.
Hes like, You know what?
And hes like, John Wicks gotta [face death].
Im like, Come again?
Hes like, We never tied any of these things together.
And Im like: Yeah, I know.
We always say that, but like, you know, youre saying a lot.
We have three somewhat jointed together films that were done independently.
And then I just read this book calledThe Hagakure, this treatise on samurai ethics.
And its like, you might only have a good death after a good life.
And were like, wWhat a great little scene that would be.
And were big fans of Hiroyuki Sanada.
Thats where the fourth movie started.
And then it became, how do you expand?
We were like: Well, weve kind of pushed that one.
What would make it fun?
How do we blow this out?
Thats why we wanted a character like the Marquis [Bill Skarsgard].
We wanted to see it from the High Table viewpoint.
And from somebody just getting in, Shamier Andersons Tracker character.
How do you deal with the relationships in it?
Like the father-daughter thing with Hiroyuki and Rina Sawayamas Akira.
And we wanted to see, well, what happens if one persons in, and one persons out?
He has to protect her.
We thought the best way to expand No.
4 was to tell a story from all these viewpoints.
Im a big fan ofThe Good, The Bad and The Ugly.
How do we get that frenemy thing going?
Why should John just fight enemies when whats the quote?
Our choices define us, not our skills.
In every scene inJohn Wick 4, we wanted a character to make a choice.
Never a choice between good and bad, but a choice between bad and worse.
Do you secure your daughter and kill your friend?
We let that define who our characters are.
Throughout this movie, everybodys gotta make a choice.
And make John fight his way up, just to get thrown back down.
We use that as a metaphor for the whole movie.
DEADLINE:You mentionThe Good, The Bad and The Uglyand Buster Keaton.
What other influences were North Stars for you?
STAHELSKI: Theres a reason Laurence Fishburne is quoting Dante in the beginning of the movie.
And David Lean, with the famous cut of Peter OToole blowing out the match.
One of the most famous edits in cinema.
I love music, couldnt get enough needle drops in the movie.
Because Im so much into orchestration and score.
How do I get more music, some more cool needle drops?
Finally, I said, OK, f*ck it.
Well just put the DJ and play The Suicide Girls in the Eiffel Tower.
Itll be a DJ, well do Nowhere To Run.Well play tribute to Walter HillsThe Warriors.Itll be great.
Ive never met Walter Hill.
Hopefully hell be OK with it.
Why do you guys click so well?
How often in Hollywood do you hear, I do my own stunts?
Ive trained for this.
It has become a behind-the-scenes push, part of the marketing plan.
Somebody that puts in four to six or four to eight weeks of training in anything, its big.
Tom Cruise in theMission: Impossiblefilms, the amount running and driving and fighting … thats all Tom.
Far above even the high expectations in our industry.
Hes one of two that stand apart.
There is no limit to how far we will go.
My experience is Keanu, and thats what Id say about him.
And thats all there is to it.
That will power and commitment, thats Keanu and thats not normal.
Its a Keanu thing, just who he is.
As far as our relationship, a couple things.
One, we have similar tastes.
If Keanu were on this call, hes gonna geek out on you, man.
Like, he just loves movies.
Not a cinephile insane fanboy love.
I love classical literature, Dante, Latin.
I love languages, museums.
I love martial arts.
I love Sergio Leoni.
Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Donnie Yen.
Korean cinema, spaghetti westerns,The French Connection, the samurai.
Thats all in the movie.
TheJohn Wicksarent some script that was handed to Keanu and me.
Yeah, and then insert shotguns.
We love dogs, we love weird staircases.
I love car hits from my stunt world.
Well make this massive list.
And thats what goes into the writing.
I met Keanu when I was a very new stunt guy, like 24 or 25.
I think we met onThe Matrix,when Keanu was coming offPoint Break,still early in his career.
I had doubled a few people before, did their action.
And then you come to Keanu whos like, F*ck it, Im doing everything.
I saw the level of training that he already had.
You have the star giving it 200%, you better put in 210%.
That became the standard, and it still is.
DEADLINE:Thats where you developed a shorthand?
STAHELSKI: I did the firstMatrix, and I was a stunt double on2and3.
The Wachowskis were cool and allowed me to become one of the stunt coordinators and choreographers.
Keanu and l grew up together there.
But sometimes that gives you that confidence to survive.
We tried to be very honest with ourselves.
And theres a lot beyond that I didnt know in the first week.
Like, How do I talk toIan McShaneand Willem Dafoe, these great actors?
How do we figure out the story?
Keanu, even after a 14-hour day, hed come over to our trailer and wed work.
He never called us f*cking idiots, never looked down on us.
Hes done the same with us in mentorship about directing and story and characters.
There has never been any hierarchy with our partnership.
He knows when this is my gig and he asks the questions and is completely supportive.
Thats probably one of the most unique things about it.
And if the movies dont get better, we dont make these movies.
It has been a mutual learning experience for both of us.
I got a couple strange looks.
We have no money, but will you work with us anyway?
We told Lance, This is why we need you.
Your character Charon is the guardian, the gatekeeper, the man between the River Styx and the underworld.
I think Im going to do it like this…
He just got it.
We knew Lance fromThe Wire, where he would own the room, yelling at people and stuff.
Here he said, Im going to be as still as an Oscar statue, the epitome of concierge.
Im the concierges concierge.
Dave and I just looked at each other.
The hardest thing is to establish tone.
STAHELSKI:When we were doingJohn Wick 3, and we wanted Lances character to do some action.
And they shared a mutual respect that went way beyond concierge and client.
He said, Whoa, wait.
After four movies, it would have been easy for someone to phone it in.
Lance understood the picture and the characters better than most everybody else.
The stuntmen were all his friends.
And he would do way too many stunts.
Do you feel that when you get up in the morning, and what do you do with Keanu?
He wants to do it all, but hes your star.
You see Tom Cruise hang off the side of a skyscraper or a plane.
Its dangerous and if hes injured, the movie could be over.
How do you balance all this?
But its also to us, defining whats a stunt.
We make a run at determine, whats skill, whats action?
A stunt by definition for us is something above and beyond the persons capabilities.
Going beyond limitations brings a probability of injury.
Keanu owns his own motorcycle company; he rides better on the track than me on my best day.
Hes what I would consider, even in the stunt world, an expert on a motorcycle.
Hundreds of hours with the best rally and drift drivers and stunt drivers on the planet.
Hes better in a car than me, and most of the stunt guys I know ever were.
So is that a stunt, for him to drift against traffic?
No, its action.
There is risk, of course.
But I have trust in my team and their skill sets.
Now, Keanus getting hit by a car.
Could he do it once?
But is there a high probability of injury?
Yes, thats two tons of metal hitting you.
One wrong move and thats it, were done.
Everybody pack up and go home.
Do we put him in big high falls or light him on fire?
We attempt to be clever and very diligent in what we decide is and isnt a stunt.
Keanus part of the conversation as well.
It might surprise you, but Keanus not…macho.
I dont mean that in a bad way, but the ego has nothing to do with it.
Hes not trying to be macho.
Hell look at something and go, no.
Like in the scene with the stair fall.
He looks to his stunt double Vincent [Bouillon] on this one.
He just looks like, No, thats Vincent, all day.
He wants to help whatevers best for the cut.
And hes like, All right, pad me up.
He wants to do whats best for the shot, whats best for the movie.
DEADLINE: That scene on the stone staircase is one of 14 action sequences.
How the heck do you bring this in at around $90 million with all those action sequences?
STAHELSKI: [Laughs].
One is a woman named Louise Rosner, the best line producer in all of Hollywood.
And no one ever questions it.
Its 10 weeks of prep.
Thats what you budget for.
Its 10 weeks of shoot, and then its 25 to 29 weeks of post and then you deliver.
And for a movie with a $50 million budget, its $4 million for an effect.
Its like theyre pulling numbers out of their asses.
I mean a script is a piece of f*cking paper.
By the time most directors or cast members get involved, theyve already been boxed out.
Like, you got $4 million for prep.
You start, you know, your camera guys come in a week out cause thatll save this much.
Its all about savings.
And when they have to crunch the numbers, prep is the first thing that gets crushed.
So I come on, they say, Chad, you got $50 million to do something.
And they proceed to tell me how to spend it.
You have 10 million for wardrobe, you got this for that, you got 10 million for that.
And Im like, Can you just give me the money?
They are like, Were gonna tell you where to spend it.
Having done so many second unit fix-it jobs, youd see that from the outside and we got ballsy.
We said, We know were new and young, but 10 million?
Some movies need less, some more.
The guy was like, Well, thats just the way we do it.
And we kept getting that answer, for months.
Well, thats the way we do it, thats the way its done.
Were like, All right, but what if we didnt do it that way?
What if we spent all the money in prep?
And we prepped for 30 weeks with the camera guys.
Most times the cameramen, even the directors, dont see the fight scene until they walk on set.
And then you get on set and you wonder why they only get five setups a day.
I get 30 to 50.
Ill spend more on location scouting and rehearsals than they ever will.
I bring in my wardrobe, makeup teams, everybody for the stunt rehearsals.
So when people walk on set, we have a plan.
We know exactly what were shooting.
Everybodys seen it a dozen times by the time we shoot.
Thats why we are so efficient.
Most people just spend the money on prep, but they dont actually prep.
The next thing is, you know bring the right people.
Who do you think shoots it?
This is madness to me.
Like every other show, they dont pay for the camera guys to be in the weeks of prep.
So how do you think thats gonna go?
But the local stunt guys havent seen the fight yet.
And then Keanus gonna fight with guys hes never met before.
Again, how do you think thats gonna go?
DEADLINE:How did you get around that?
STAHELSKI: We just threw all that out the window.
But then you finish on time and you get the shots we do.
And then everybody goes, Oh my God, howd you get those shots?
Well, theres no magic to it.
Everyone talks about the fights and the genius camera work.
Theyre the simplest camera moves.
Thats not the magic.
The magic is the time we put in to get the shit thats going on into camera.
To do the wide shots timed, and all the stunt guys to get the cars to do it.
It is the attention to detail.
Theres nothing left to chance.
You have other things percolating includingRainbow Sixwith Michael B. Jordan.Highlanderwith Henry Cavill.
Do you want to continue to lean intoJohn Wickand its spinoffs, prequels?
STAHELSKI: Thats a good question.
Thats gonna be something thats definitely on the slate, and were working on the script now.
Well see where and when that all comes together.
The other project Im super stoked for isGhost ofTsushima.
As forJohn Wick,you will never Keanu or I say, Were done.
What Lionsgate decides to do with the properties is up to them.
But like withBallerina, thats Len Wisemans baby, and Ana de Armas.
But we also want him to do his own thing with it.
Id love to stay involved in all aspects ofJohn Wick.Its fun for me.
I love the world.
Theres a reason we did4and it wasnt anything more than we love the world.
It gives us freedom.
DEADLINE:They give out a lot of Oscars but never one for stunts.
Make a case for the Academy to reconsider this.
Itcertainlywould be a way to work in the big commercial tentpoles, which is the domain of stunt people.
STAHELSKI: Well, let me dissect that a little bit, when you say reconsider.
What makes you think theyve ever really considered it?
DEADLINE:I have not.
STAHELSKI: All right.
So you see the fundamental problem here.
Could you find a single person?
I dont think so.
So OK, what seems to be the problem here?
The problem is no ones having the conversation.
DEADLINE:Have you raised it with them?
Theres not a single arguable reason not to have stunts in the Academy Awards.
No ones gonna deny that we are at least equal to every other department.
And none of the people in those departments will deny that.
I just think we havent had the talk.
I think theres some challenges in it.
The stunt department works very differently.
Cinematographer is one person, same with costume designer and director.
DEADLINE:Is it a team game?
I have Jeremy Arenas, a choreographer that puts all these great moves together.
I have three other riggers and three other choreographers and two assistant stunt coordinators.
And I myself coordinate half and my editors put it all together.
Say we win the Oscar for Best Stunt.
Which of the nine people who should get it?
And what are you given the Oscar for?
There is the great staircase fall for John Wick, and a couple great car hits.
Theres a great high fall out the window.
But the effect ofJohn Wickis the overall action of the movie.
So are you giving the award for Best Stunt or Best Stunt Sequence, or Best Stunt Constant?
The stunt guys dont know the answer.
And I guarantee you the Academy doesnt either.
So Im asking you to throw down the gauntlet to help make it happen.
How do we do this?
Lets figure it out together.
But Im thinking back on films likeMad Max: Fury RoadorCrouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
Its a legitimate win-win situation.
No great stunt person or performer I know is doing it for accolades or statues.
It doesnt mean that much to us.
But it is nice to be recognized by your peers.
