Kevin Costnerhas turned his Santa Barbara home into a fully-fledged post-production facility.
In one room, editors are cutting the first leg ofHorizon: An American Sagahell premiere in Cannes.
In another, an editor is working onPart Two.
Kevin Costner atThe Matrixpremiere during the 2003Cannes Film Festival.Christian Alminana/FilmMagic
In a third, there is an assemblage of a documentary on the making of the four-film series.
How does it feel, having one finished and headed toCannes, and a second close to being done?
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KEVIN COSTNER: Thats kind of an interesting question.
I will say this to you.
We dont know how much time we have on this Earth.
Youre going to drive home.
You dont know if somebody gets on the on-ramp going the wrong way.
There was a window in to where my heart was.
And when people speak of you later, they should speak of your heart.
Well, who was this person?
DEADLINE:This your first film at Cannes?
COSTNER: I was there once, sellingOpen Range, but it wasnt even in a competition.
It was just to meet the international buyers.
Ive never been there for a movie.
I went on the red carpet once and watched one of theMatrixmovies, which was exciting.
I would like to come back for the third one.
Maybe they wont want a movie that is released in August.
But Ill have a third and fourth film.
Now, each of you will be at Cannes premiering these movies.
COSTNER: He finished his?
This is a guy that has…
COSTNER: Brass balls.
DEADLINE:Youve had the cushion of your Yellowstone salary.
COSTNER: You realize, I can do this.
My kids might not get the 10 acres [the waterfront Santa Barbara property Costner put at risk].
They can make up their own lives.
But Im not going to let anything hold me back.
They can make it seem like its an obsession, but its something he wanted to do.
Hes not hurting anybody.
He figured it out.
Hes also explained to his children.
Mine are so clear about it.
Dad, you do what you want to do.
We dont need all these things.
Weve enjoyed all these things, but we dont need them.
They just dont want to see me just work myself to death.
I feel Ive made a movie for the people, period.
This isnt a movie from me.
I felt like it was my turn in my career to tell a story.
This is the one I choose to tell.
Its just my turn.
DEADLINE:You could also take an actor-for-hire job.
Yellowstone…
COSTNER:Yellowstonewas really good.Hatfields & McCoys, that was good.
DEADLINE: Yellowstonemushroomed into the biggest hit on basic cable, the ratings growing each year.
Where does it stand withYellowstone?
So now Im talking about a little bit about what the real truth of it was.
I made a contract for seasons five, six and seven.
In February, after a two- or three-month negotiation, they made another contract.
They werent able to make those.Horizonwas set in the middle, butYellowstonewas first position.
I fit [Horizon] into the gaps.
They just kept moving their gaps.
DEADLINE:A Gala premiere at Cannes seems so exciting.
Wholl come with you?
And then I got to thinking about it and Im going to bring all the women.
I sent an email to all the guys, that Im taking the six girls.
Theyre never celebrated enough.
And I said, it keeps me from doing this weird political picking back and forth.
Anyone else that happens to be in Europe, Ill get you a ticket.
But Im not a studio.
COSTNER: Im so thrilled to be going there.
I just elected not to get into that.
I did not initiate any of those things.
They were doing a tap dance and this poor guy was also having to write so much.
And I dont know why they didnt stick up for me.
You asked me the question, Im going to answer it.
I dont do press outside my movies.
I dont live in the press, in between.
Now Im promoting my movie.
I could say no comment all the way through.
I will address it.
They should have known that there was going to be an opportunity for me to say something.
Theyve been pretty slick about keeping their hands off; nobody was ever on the record.
Past accomplishments dont stop people from taking shots at him, and you.
COSTNER: No, they dont.
Neither one of us should be surprised.
I love how people who have seen it are responding toHorizon.
You were the first.
I hope the same for Francis, but were not immune to just being picked at.
DEADLINE: If you worry too much about this, cant it make a filmmaker fearful?
Is it best to trust your gut and collaborators?
I dont think that flies.
But somebody has to protect the rhythm of the movie.
you might never make decisions out of fear.
I watch time, Im agonized by it.
Its not like Im out there going, I dont give a sh*t what people think.
Thats not who I am.
I screened this movie at 3:15.
First one was 3:52 and at first I didnt know how to get five minutes out of that.
Then I took it to 3:29, then 3:24, then I got it to 3:15.
I screened that in Vegas, and then got down to 3:06.
I didnt think it had an inch more to go.
Then I dropped beneath three hours.
Got to 2:50, now Im at 2:45, but Im going to put some back.
I dont care if you think 2:50 is the perfect length for my movie.
COSTNER: Well, it aint going to be 2:45, Mike.
DEADLINE:Youve described my personal weight-loss fantasy.
But first you got to get down to 175, and thats where my plan fails.
COSTNER: I get what youre saying, the hardest part was getting to 2:40.
And I was teasing you when I said to be quiet.
I do think about all this, because I own it.
Would I like a screen time that allowed me an extra show each day?
Nobody would like that more than me.
We are just dealing with our own UFOs.
We see something and we cant back away from it.
How hard is that dance in a sprawling film about Manifest Destiny?
COSTNER: I remember the first assemblage ofDances with Wolveswas five and a half hours.
Its painful, but there is pleasure.
Ive got [Horizon] where I want it.
DEADLINE:So, you have locked the first two films?
COSTNER: The second one is not locked.
Im still looking to cut some things.
Its 2:45, that number you seem to f*cking be in love with.
DEADLINE:When do you plan to start the third film?
COSTNER: I wanted to start April 25th, but Ive got to find the money.
I wanted to start May 6th, but I needed to find the money.
Ive moved myself to May 13th, and Im going to start my movie.
I dont give a sh*t now.
Im just going to start it.
DEADLINE:Do you worry, what if the audience doesnt come back for the other three installments?
Nobody has done what youre doing here, not on a movie screen anyway.
COSTNER: Who doesnt come back?
DEADLINE:The audience.
Would you want to own these two pieces for the rest of your life?
And every five years, license them around the world.
Relicense them here in America.
The difference is I own that, because of the risk Ive taken.
Why is Vegas there?
Its for all the people that lose to the house.
Why are studios there?
Its because those movies continue to make money, well beyond their opening weekends.
DEADLINE:Even with the death of the DVD?
COSTNER: Death of the what?
DVD is not dead, at all.
Thats what theyd have you believe.
They wont give that up.
You cant make your film for the opening weekend.
You have to make it for its life.
DEADLINE:Im not a risk taker, but I admire those who bet on themselves.
COSTNER: Neither of us is Ahab.
I first saw obsession in my life when I sawMoby Dickwith Gregory Peck.
There was this prize he was determined to win, and it turned into something more.
He was willing to take men down.
We put ourselves on the line, we shoulder it all.
Other people get paid.
For me, itll be two or three years without a salary fromHorizon.
Try it, see how it feels.
DEADLINE:No thank you.
COSTNER: Try doing that, with a lot of money going out.
Hes not crying to anybody.
Im not crying to anybody.
But if you think its easy, try it.
There were blocks of time that we didnt get 10 episodes done.
Basically, we were starting in April and May, and wed usually go through August.
We didnt even get 10 done during that time.
I only worked 43 days.
So thats bullsh*t. Thats a lie.
They made the contract and they picked the days.
DEADLINE:So, in your mind, you lived up to what they asked?
COSTNER: Not in my mind, in the truth of the contract.
I lived up to it.
In fact, I gave them 25 of my days for this B thing in November and December.
What they called 5B.
The whole month of March.
DEADLINE:So you shot that?
I didnt shoot 5B.
There was no script.
And then things imploded.
Youve been reading one version [of this behind-the-scenes drama] for a year and a half.
I left my movie to be on time for them for 5B.
I left exactly when they wanted, and it made it hard on me.
It turns out they didnt have the scripts for 5B.
They needed four more days just to complete the first eight episodes.
They didnt have the scripts for anything else.
I really didnt have that week to give them, but I said, Ill do that.
And then they [spun that] into, I only wanted to work a week.
DEADLINE:So this was a gesture on your part, not an ultimatum?
COSTNER: Im trying to help you.
There were no scripts.
Do you think thats who I am?
Ive never missed a day of work.
Ive never left before fulfilling my contractual obligations.
A lot of times, I stay as much as I can.
I worked a Saturday and Sunday for them, and they still needed four more days.
I was just going to give em those extra four days.
They werent ready to do anything with them because the scripts werent there.
Theres a lot of product they were putting out.
Why dont you stick up for me?
I went and sold this thing for you.
I was going to only do one season.
I made it for three.
So, I made the contract to do that.
I had a contract to do five, six and seven.
I was contracted to do that.
When we finished, I wanted to doHorizon.
DEADLINE:Why did they shut down?
COSTNER: Didnt have the scripts.
And they wrote these other three shows.
They dont ever talk about that.
And all they did was remember we were releasing the series in June, then it moved to October.
They covered by changing their release pattern.
That time was about a 14-month period.
All I did was protect myself, but I didnt put myself in first position, overYellowstone.
I filled the gaps.
Do you see that?
DEADLINE:I do.
COSTNER: There were three negotiations, Mike.
I didnt initiate any of that.
And then we werent doing that, and [Season 5] went from 10 episodes down to eight.
So dont talk to me about man-to-man.
DEADLINE:What happens now?
COSTNER: Im very open to coming back.
Or end it, if the writings there and Im happy with it.
Im open to that.
Im not happy about that.
But if the writing is there, I will be there too.
They had first position.
I didnt doHorizonbecause I was tired of doingYellowstone.
Thats a bullsh*t story.
I didnt doHorizonto compete withYellowstone.
This is something Ive had a long time.
Taylor read that script three years earlier when he was contemplating other writers [forYellowstone].
I think you write Yellowstone beautifully.
So, he read that and knew what the thing was about.
Its just that simple: Paramount and 101 Studios mismanaged this.
They had me for five, six, and seven.
I agreed to do it.
And then they steadily began changing their format.
And what about the year that went missing?
DEADLINE:Seems like that happens when it comes down to an auteur showrunner.
TV followed firm hourlong time slots, until Kurt Sutter told FX some of hisSons of Anarchyepisodes ran long.
Suddenly, an hour stretched beyond that.
Taylor Sheridan has done a lot of other shows, including the epicYellowstonespinoffs1883and1923.
But everybody lives with a contract and they were comfortable signing.
Two companies have to sign the contract they signed with me.
Im a single person.
I signed the contract.
I dealt with that through seasons one, two, three and four, and didnt say a word.
When they canceled a whole season to make room or whatever, I didnt even complain about that.
Im only talking about it now.
And I wanted to work more than once a year.
And Id only worked at that point in time once a year and I wasnt used to that.
Writing is really hard.
But in my instance, I have real obligations.
And then I went to do my thing with 20 days of prep or 15 days of prep.
Try making a movie that way.
And then finishingYellowstonebefore starting a new chapter.
COSTNER: I think that they should do whatever they want to do.
Am I open to coming back?
Ive never been in a position to tell them what to do.
I can only do what I can do.
DEADLINE:You havent seen the final scripts?
COSTNER: Im not involved in any of that stuff.
It was a major reason you made your directing debut.
That must have been tough to hear.
COSTNER: He didnt want the whole Civil War thing.
And the direct result of that scene was, he was trying to commit suicide.
And so that sets the stage.
COSTNER: The general said, we got a man here whose leg needs saving.
What happened is there are three or four lines, very sparse, in 10 minutes.
Why should I shoot that?
Theyre going to want it gone anyway.
What mentality was I dealing with?
I cant tell you.
But that was too much for me.
So thats a no.
