But what are showrunnersPatrick McKayandJD Paynedelivering that makes the continuation of the JRR Tolkien mythology worthwhile?
And also a storytelling runway that can stretch as long as the one that poweredGame of Thronesand its spinoffs.
And we worked with Bad Robot, with Lindsey Weber, who ran JJ Abrams film department.
(L-R) Charlie Vickers as Sauron; Morfydd Clark as Galadriel; JD Payne and Patrick McKayAmazon
We wrote screenplays all through college so what you see now, the incubation project started then.
PAYNE: You mentioned deserts.Lawrence Arabia, definitely something we talked about a lot in the room.
That turned out to be the key that unlocked the door.
Amazon Prime
And whenLord of the Ringscame around, we chased it with everything we had.
Then we discovered what a challenge it is, the craft that goes into bringing that world to life.
That made it not just genre fantasy filmmaking, but the highest Hollywood art.
Those Peter Jackson films were not just blockbusters, they were mega Oscar winners.
We went into it with a little bit of naivety and just a love for the material and enthusiasm.
It was like racing in the Indy 500 in the middle of a rainstorm.
We were very, very, very lucky that Amazon was so happy with how it turned out.
They launched us right into a second season.
And in that were going to more worlds.
Were expanding the map, going deeper in that the character journey that is more psychologically complex.
The story of Sauron and Celebrimbor…
Psychologically, its more complex than Season 1, and bigger just in the scope of it.
Theres a creature around every corner.
Weve got Barrow-wights, and ents, and trolls.
Its just an enormous season.
Weve raised our game in every department and well see how the fans receive it.
Hed done a bunch of things but had never had the opportunity to really hit the fastball.
We knew we had very great long-term ambitions for this character and that he would have all these layers.
Sauron had to be a villain, but unlike other villains, hes a deceiver.
The image in our heads is masses of purely evil, faceless zombie armies attacking people.
But Sauron, as Tolkien originally depicted and conceived him, is quite complex.
Hes a fallen God in a way, a lesser God, so to speak, a fallen angel.
And we from the very beginning thought about John MiltonsParadise Lostand that depiction of Satan.
In fact, Charlie auditioned with a piece fromParadise Lost, for Sauron.
That can make for very compelling viewing.
I have to say, were really proud of the results.
DEADLINE:That Sauron blood scene is crazy and cinematic.
I read all the books in college.
Im a hopeless Tolkien groupie, I guess…
PAYNE: Thats awesome.
Start with Charlie Edwards.
He comes off as so likable with this charming, reserved manner about him, but hes also ambitious.
As you said, one of his ancestors created the greatest artwork ever.
Hes got that anxiety and ambition influencing him to need to do something that matter.
He wants to create something thats beautiful, something thats going to bring healing and beauty into Middle-earth.
Thats where Sauron is able to get him.
He sees this ambition in Celebrimbor and says, alright, thats where Im going to get him.
And Celebrimbor bites on the hook.
MCKAY: In some ways this whole season is the origin story for how Sauron earned that title.
But not just yet.
We love this world, we love Middle-earth, we love those texts.
And thats really the god we pray to.
We want it to be a thoroughly entertaining show.
And I think at the end of the day, thats sort of where we place our chips.
DEADLINE:Take us through the different races in Middle-earth and what you do in Season 2 with them.
It was fascinating how you made the Orcs more than the killer zombies as you described them.
Under Adar, this is a race that wants to live in their version of peace.
Theyre more than just instruments to be commanded to wipe out men, elves and dwarves.
So, start there with the Orcs.
And we were also always fascinated by the idea that the orcs are fallen elves.
Tolkien has this idea that evil cant create anything, it can only corrupt.
That the elves, these amazing, beautiful creatures could be corrupted into the orcs was fascinating to us.
And that can make for really compelling drama.
I dont remember that in the book.
Who thought it up and how much of a eureka moment was that in the writers room?
PAYNE: Thats a great question.
We worked with a murderers row of all of these great writers from prestige television.
Jason Cahill worked onThe Sopranos.
Genny Hutchinson was in theBreaking BadandBetter Call Saulrooms, Helen Shang worked onHannibal.
And we wanted to show people things theyd never seen on television.
We liked the idea that maybe Mordor was not always Mordor.
That felt like really fertile terrain.
That brought us around to the idea of, well, how do you trigger a volcano?
DEADLINE:A good day in the writers room?
MCKAY: Yes, one of many good days.
DEADLINE:What about the crises facing elves, dwarves and men in Season 2?
Season 1, the elves face this existential crisis where their light is fading.
We wanted to figure out a way to dramatize that.
Theyre in a really terrible Catch-22, damned if you do and damned if you dont.
This is a window into how we piece these things together.
And then the rings were a solution to that problem.
That was the backwards math we did from the Third Age to the Second Age.
This could be compromising and dangerous and reason to not use them and wed have to go home.
We could be powering our enemy even more.
So thats the crisis the elves are facing.
MCKAY: For the dwarves, it all goes back to the volcano.
That initial environmental destruction has far-reaching effects.
And they find they need a magical solution to that existential crisis.
If its the elfs time to go, we got to let him go.
And now hes going to eat his own words because hes presented with a similar crisis.
So thats the crisis this season.
Patrick, do you want to talk about the men a little bit?
MCKAY: We have our island kingdom of Numenor, which is the great Atlantis myth of Tolkiens mythology.
Its the greatest kingdom of men that ever existed, but that eventually falls into civil war.
And this seasons really about watching that ideological division and polarization and gap widen.
People who know the canon know where the Numenor story is going.
MCKAY: Yes, thats true.
PAYNE: Thats the core of the show.
Rather than taking that for granted, lets really explore it.
And for Isildur in Season 1, all he wanted to do was get away from home.
He was the sort of restless, aimless youth.
Now, Season 2, all he wants to do is get back home.
You say youve created your own creatures.
What should we hang onto our hats for?
The show is so ambitious, and Kristian Milsted, our production designer.
We did massive new builds, practical builds for every world and every kingdom.
I mean, Khazad-dum is huge for creature use.
We wanted to bring these creatures to life.
And Luca Mosca, who does our costumes, crushed it this season.
But we really feel like Season 2, the visuals speak for themselves.
And thats because of our amazing collaborators.
And the two of them bring just a sense of wisdom and agelessness and pathos to these tree creatures.
DEADLINE:Peter Jackson invited me and my son to come to Wellington a few years back.
He has them all, because back then they had to be built.
MCKAY: That is a fantastic question.
What if we built a mini Numenor, or what if we built a massive Numenor in a computer?
And what you end up doing is replacing a lot of it.
We know this is the most fiscally ambitious series weve ever seen, but has there been that friction?
Tolkiens imagination is vast, and were lucky that they are fans as well as the studio.
And weve had a really just positive relationship with the studio did the entire time along.
Patrick, do you have anything to add there?
What I would say is this: JD and I came as writers in television.
The writer is the showrunner, director, producer, all of the above.
And the only way to do that is smart producing.
That points to a healthy and positive relationship with our studio.
They are collaborators and our partners.
You must have this mapped out in your heads.
How many seasons do you gotta tell this story and stick the landing?
How we got that job was, we presented a story with a beginning, middle and end.
And we were able to do that because its not our story.
We are merely stewards.
DEADLINE:That was gracefully evasive.
MCKAY: Mike, Ill give a shot to be one degree more specific.
We have a plan with the characters, like Isildur.
What are the various things that you take away along the way?
There are thoughts like that for many of the characters and especially the canonical ones.
That said, we also leave room for discovery.
Thats one of the joys of creation.
And especially when youre collaborating with each one of our collaborators as we have.
He said, creatures, lets do more creatures.
And so we really talked about what kind of creatures are we going to bring in?
How are they going to fit into the narrative?
And we have conversations like that with all of our department heads and with our actors as well.
Theyre making discoveries about the characters as theyre playing them.
But all that said, we have the major signposts along the way and we know where were going.
