The two had co-created and co-directed the television seriesOur Boysfor HBO (along with Hagai Levi).
I couldnt understand how this happened.
I needed urgently to hear some inside information from the side trying to kill me.
Joseph Cedar & Tawfik Abu WaelCourtesy/Getty/
And I assumed that you are following and are connected to sources I cant access.
But then, I found out many in our industry had already called you.
Everyone had this sudden need to talk to their Arab friend.
‘Our Boys’
And from that place, people were trying to reclaim their humanity.
I am afraid and ashamed to speak Arabic in public.
CEDAR:Thats exactly what religious Jewish friends of mine in New York have been telling me.
The ones who are visibly Jewish.
That, for the first time in their lives, they feel uneasy in New York City.
So, I understand your fear.
But why are you ashamed?
ABU WAEL:Ive noticed that I am constantly apologetic.
I belong to this group and certain members of it are capable of committing such atrocities.
And this knowledge stirs in me a feeling of shame and estrangement.
They feel that Hamasdoesrepresent the Palestinians, they are not ashamed of Hamas.
Maybe this is a feeling that is only true for Palestinians in Israel who do not support Hamas.
ABU WAEL:The point-of-view of those on the outside is nostalgic.
Its the feeling that nothing can be done against the injustices of Israel or against history.
What is left then besides identifying with those who fight against Israel?
But the goal of Hamas Let me die with the Philistines is neither realistic nor rational.
Hamas claims it can solve the worlds problems by establishing an Islamic empire.
Sometimes I feel like crying out, Cant you see?
Do you realize people in Gaza are walking around wondering, When am I going to die?
Meanwhile, the Israelis are in denial.
They dont want to know.
They spout slogans like Flatten Gaza.
Near my house here in Tel Aviv there is a sign that reads Victory Means Zero Civilians in Gaza.
In other words, genocide.
I am overcome with helplessness.
There is no sanity, no middle ground.
This is not a world I want to live in.
I am not a political person, but my entire existence is built on co-existence.
I believe the solution can only come from an Arab-Israeli or Palestinian-Jewish movement.
There is no justice in the world, and that is true of Israel, too.
But the solution is not black or white.
I will always strive to see the Palestinian victim overcome himself and adopt the ideas of Gandhi.
Yes, there is a blockade on Gaza, a brutal blockade, no food, no fuel.
CEDAR: Images like that were completely shattered on October 7th.
My daughter works for an organization naive enough to believe in coexistence.
But after the 7th, they were told to focus only on Israelis.
Because you cant even talk right now.
Our leaders and your leaders, they dont believe in it.
The leaders the Israeli people have chosen would rather distribute weapons to shoot down those balloons.
That is where my helplessness comes in.
This is where you and I overlap.
We cant think of anything else.
And its hard for filmmakers, who are used to thinking anything is possible.
If an idea is good enoughwe find a way to make it happen.
Very few filmmakers I know will accept no for an answer and give up.
But now, I am faced with a reality where there is nothing I can do.
And when it comes to Israels response to the massacre, the momentum seems unstoppable.
I havent always felt this way.
For example, the way Israel handled the killers of [Mohammed] Abu Khdeir gave me hope.
I did not feel helpless there.
I felt that the Israeli judicial system recognized the severity of the crime.
I never raised a finger.
Even under the best of circumstances, the existence of a Palestinian Arab in Tel Aviv is unnatural.
CEDAR:Or in Hebrew.
Everyone agrees we must win the war but how do we win?
What does winning mean?
ABU WAEL: We must oppose violence.
And there is no justification for violent struggle.
I am not a military person but what I see Israel doing is an act of revenge.
I dont see a plan in place for anything else.
CEDAR: Yes, revenge backed with absolute Israeli consensus.
But were calling it deterrence these days.
ABU WAEL: Thats true, and that is what scares me.
My friends people I know to be humane seem to be finding pleasure in the destruction.
Its a dreadful feeling and you’re able to see yourself losing your sanity to it.
I think Hamas has successfully turned this conflict into a religious war with no room for compromise.
CEDAR: So, where do we go from here?
ABU WAEL: The biggest challenge of living here is preserving our humanity.
They will not take that away from me.
I will always believe in preserving our humanity.
CEDAR: Im sorry, Tawfik, but they have already taken your humanity.
ABU WAEL:Who did?
That is a fascist way of thinking, and I wont accept it.
I look at Israelis as human beings.
I will not hold all Israelis responsible for what their government does.
Hamas biggest accomplishment is that there is no way to return to a quiet life.
Their success is not tactical.
It is in that theyve create an event that, like World War II, changes everything.
We are now in a new and extreme situation, and that is the source of my helplessness.
But something you said gave me a sliver of hope.
In Israel, we have a ray of light scant and dim as it is but light, nonetheless.
We hold on to the hope that, once this is over, we can replace this government.
We were on track for constant growth on the religious right, both on a demographic and political level.
ABU WAEL:Absolutely.
Any external force that tries to uproot Hamas can only achieve this in the short term.
The idea of Hamas has roots that run deep.
It is the hope of the desperate.
Those who have nothing left so they feel they can at least sacrifice themselves for a worthy cause.
That is what Hamas has to offer.
But even if Hamas cannot be totally eradicated, then it must be reformed.
CEDAR: What makes you think that is possible?
ABU WAEL: I look at the history of the Muslim Brotherhood, and I see two factions there.
There is the al-Banna faction, and the Sayyid Qutb faction.
Qutb was a secular man who found religion and brought with him the Jihadist idea.
So, the Muslim Brotherhood is not a monolith, either.
The classic example can be found here, in Israel.
So, I dont take the loudest voices to heart.
But look at the reaction from Arabs in Israel.
Look at the reaction from Arabs in the West Bank.
Youre not seeing protests, or a violent uprising.
If anything, people have clung to sanity.
Despite the anger, despite the frustration and despite the rage.
That gives me hope.
ABU WAEL:I believe in that.
Not for Israelis, and not for Palestinians and because victory means genocide for the other side.
CEDAR: I agree.
But that can only happen under a new regime.
When you look at us, do you think we can replace our leaders?
ABU WAEL: I am not quite as optimistic on that matter.
What is the judicial reform all about?
But every dictator has their base and people who will stick with them through thick and thin.
Id expect people who dont live here to protest violence of all kindshatred, racism, antisemitism and Islamophobia.
They dont live inside the pressure and madness like we do.
They havent got a sword hanging over their heads.
When I walk down the streetI am afraid.
And when you meet an Arabyou are afraid.
They could have said something different, but instead all that remains is propaganda on both sides.
No matter what you say, you will be criticized.
But we have lost all nuance.
All that left is the propaganda game and people play it like zombies.
I refuse to play that game.
If you attack the Jew merely because he is a Jew, then I too am a Jew.
Ive heard you, in the past, say you are not overly worried about antisemitism.
Does that hold true today?
Even when I sensed something that may have an antisemitic odor, it was never truly threatening to me.
We are in a moral crisis and this virus is now breaking out.
Today I realize Jews are a persecuted minority and that I am a persecuted minority.
But now, it only adds to the feeling of helplessness.
ABU WAEL:But its not like us to be helpless.
Some of my optimism comes from the Jewish people.
