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GEORGE C. WOLFE: Yes, absolutely.
We filmed a certain section of the speech that was longer than whats in the film.
DEADLINE: What did those choices give you?
Karine Jean-Pierre, Colman Domingo and George C. Wolfe at the 33rd Annual Gotham Awards held at Cipriani Wall Street on November 27, 2023 in New York City.Bryan Bedder/Getty Images
I wanted the emotions surrounding that to have equal, if not greater weight, than what was said.
How supportive was Dr. Kings family here?
WOLFE: They were very, very supportive.
Rustin
There was a spirit of generosity.
So I think we inherited a lot of goodwill and grace.
It was really wonderful.
WOLFE: From the time he was a teenager, his whole life was about this kind of thing.
I often thought about this.
He protested against the movie theaters that were very segregated.
He protested against certain places where he couldnt go to eat.
Hes doing this at 14, 15, 16.
There was this sense of decency and responsibility and correctness and humanity that just seemed to flow effortlessly.
A commitment to doing that which was right just flowed effortlessly from him.
And then he did protest against the internment of the Japanese.
And he always was determined to help those in need of help.
DEADLINE: You felt a responsibility as a storyteller to now allow his greatest moment to be overshadowed?
He got Dr. King to the mountaintop.
WOLFE: Ive done a lot of theater, and in musical theater theres the 11 oclock number.
In Gypsy, its Mama Rose singing Roses Turn.
Theres always an ultimate number that delivers.
And I spent a lot of time talking with my editor about that.
Only leaders who were in charge of civil rights organizations were allowed to speak.
DEADLINE: How does that qualify as an 11 oclock number?
WOLFE: This is the essence of him in service, and thats what I wanted to honor.
WOLFE: Washington DC was a segregated city, also.
DEADLINE: It must have been complex to depict these giants sat that time.
WOLFE: You have to remember that image was extremely important because of the impact TV was having.
That had an impact on who voted.
Who looks like the person whos ready to move forward into the world?
DEADLINE: But he was openly gay.
WOLFE: Gay, a 1963 version without question.
He was not interested in concealing.
He was too busy doing and activating and changing and enforcing and empowering.
What are you doing?
What action are you taking?
Where do you stand?
Who are you protecting for?
Who are you honoring?
And so he was much more concerned with that.
DEADLINE: That explains a lot about the reticence of those leaders in embracing Rustin.
WOLFE: It was a strategy.
What is the perfect image?
That awareness was made very clear to me.
Its oppression, but responsibility.
Every single thing you do contributes to the cause of the race, or distracts from it.
DEADLINE: Wow, what a burden.
He comes off poorly in Rustin.
WOLFE: He was a very smart, very savvy, very witty, very commanding politician.
And then theres a human being and somebody needs to do that story of that human being.
But here, its the politician.
Were not dealing with his marriages and who he loved and who he lost and all of that.
Adam Clayton Powell [Jeffrey Wright] was a very savvy New York politician.
Theres an aspect of me in terms of his wit and his command that I sort of enjoy.
He did make that threat.
DEADLINE: The photograph you show of Dr. King bathing, and Bayard in the frame.
WOLFE: Which was created by Mr. Hoovers FBI, and totally fabricated.
Its so welcome to America as this complicated land.
Its so incredibly complicated.
DEADLINE: Add to that that Hoover was reputed to be a gay man.
WOLFE: That too.
Ive heard sections of his speeches which I really love.
It was just so charming and so wonderful.
And he had the crowd in the palm of his hand.
But thats the thing which I think is so really fascinating.
I am drawn, the phrase I use is in process people.
Byard was an in process person and so was MLK.
But whether or not they achieve that, thats what we figure out over time.
And they also see what they achieve.
So theyll hopefully say, I am this, but I can do this because by did it.
I can do this because I saw Adam Clayton Powell do it.
So it makes the heroics of their deeds seem attainable.
WOLFE: For many people, he doesnt exist.
I saw a study guide for a cultural institution I will not mention.
There was a play that was being done, and it was a study guide about this time period.
And his name didnt appear once.
And he was crucial, but was not mentioned once in the book.
DEADLINE: But many people are remembered for the March on Washington.
WOLFE: One person walked away that day an international figure.
Martin, at the beginning of the movie in 1960, is a regional rising star.
And that was me.
That was in my mind, him walking into history.
There was this sense of responsibility and selflessness, even though it was hard to obey and honor.
He succeeded most of the time.
And thats a glorious goal for all of us.
Same for the leaders of the Civil rights movement.
Everybody was trying to juggle various affiliations and political energies.
How quickly, that was debatable.
And so A. Philip Randolph and Byard proposed a march on Washington twice under FDR.
They were protesting the fact that the war industry, for lack of better words, was very segregated.
They threatened a march and FDR adjusted and they integrated all their war plans then.
So A. Philip Randolph and Byard had threatened to do this thing twice before.
And the political adjustment was made.
Now it is 1963.
There was this mounting frustration and intensity about, lets honor the Supreme Court.
So it was their determination to bring about change, which the Supreme Court had already said must happen.
And it wasnt happening.
DEADLINE: Switching gears a bit.
You directed Chadwick Bosemans final performance in Ma Raineys Black Bottom.
Then Anthony Hopkins does, and he not only wasnt there, he was asleep in Europe.
How did all of that hit you?
WOLFE: It hit me on a number of levels.
And I have tremendous respect for his wife, Simone.
Awards are complicated because somebody wins and somebody loses.
You dont want to disparage who won, and get into all of that.
I mean, but they had a lifetime of this human being.
And his work, regardless of some statue in that movie, was astonishingly brilliant.
DEADLINE: It certainly was.
I found myself wondering as I watched Rustin, what role would Chadwick have played if he was alive?
Im sure he wouldve played some role.
WOLFE: Absolutely, absolutely.
He and I talked about a film that we wanted to do together.
He sent me something, I sent him something.
So we were talking about it.
I loved working with him.
What was that like, in between takes?
WOLFE: I think when youre making work, thats the focus.
Youre not thinking about anything else.
I cant imagine what that was for him.
Its like youre driven to do that which you have agreed to do.
It is just heroic.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant work.
Regardless, every single time, every single time he delivered.
And then we took lunch and we came back and he was back.
He was back and he delivered.
And then he crushed it at full power.
So its unto itself just as an act of working, it was a phenomenon, a heroic phenomenon.
But given the fact that he was also processing illness, it makes it even more staggering.
