All I wanted to do this morning was get up and bake a pie, saysJudd Hirsch.
DEADLINE: Where are you calling from?
Watch on Deadline
JUDD HIRSCH: Im in Los Angeles.
Sammy (Gabriel LaBelle) and Uncle Boris (Judd Hirsch) in The Fabelmans.Merie Weismiller Wallace/Universal Pictures/Everett Collection
DEADLINE: So youre on the campaign trail?
HIRSCH: More or less, I guess.
I mean, theres a train thats leaving every day, and I get on it.
From left: LaBelle and Hirsch inThe Fabelmans.Merie Weismiller Wallace/Universal Pictures/Everett Collection
DEADLINE: How do you feel about that?
Youve been nominated before, and youve won a lot of other awards.
Does it still have the same appeal for you?
And for that length of time, it seems like the light on it sort of fades.
You go, Wait a minute…. Oh yeah, I remember that movie!
And then it goes on and on and on.
The public everybody has a very short memory after youve done something, especially movies.
You do them, they see them, goodbye.
You know what Im saying?
It happened to me back in 1981.
Everything was new back then.
I dont think I remember there being that much press attention.
And since he was, it wouldve been absolutely unfair to him if I won.
I mean, I would have had to explain that to him forever, and he was only 19!
Maybe this is one of them.
DEADLINE: Lets hope so!
How did this role come to you?
HIRSCH: Well, I dont know.
It came in sort of like a balloon, like these balloons the Chinese fly.
And I thought, Well, thats like a mystery.
And my agent said something like, Itmightbe Steven Spielberg.
I dont know why he didnt know either.
So, I said, OK, give me the Zoom [details].
And then of course, I forgot.
I mean, I was still in the house.
So, I get on the Zoom, and theres Mr. Spielberg twiddling his thumbs, waiting.
And the only thing I had to say was to identify him to himself.
I said, Youre Steven Spielberg.
Im not usually a nervous person, but I was then.
After that it was a very simple conversation.
I was saying, What do you want of me?
And he was saying, I have a character in a movie that Im doing about myself.
I said, Really?
He said, Yes.
Its a great uncle of mine.
And I said, Well, where does he come from?
He said, I dont know, but I think it might be the Ukraine.
I said, OK. How long ago?
He said, Well, its a long time ago.
And I said, What did he sound like?
And he said, We kind of hardly understood a word he said.
So, thats about as much as I got to play this part.
From one of the greatest directors of all time, thats the information he was able to give me.
He said, Well, read the script.
The script will be coming to you momentarily.
Read it and give it back.
I mean, like pictures and photographs, and maybe even motion pictures and pieces of clothing.
They were completely filled out with [information about] Stevens family.
And for me there was nothing at all.
Nobody ever sent me anything.
Now, remember that its arealguy.
I was there to fill in.
And by the way, my character has the only real name in the movie.
Everybody else has a fictional name.
You know what Im saying?
Uncle Boris is the onlyactual, real name.
So, that set me back.
Im behind the eight ball here.
I just cant get any information, no matter how much I ask.
The big question is: why did he come?
Whats he doing there?
And why is his intent so intensive?
I mean, its like, whoaskedyou?
DEADLINE: How did you find an answer to those questions?
HIRSCH: I had to look at it as if it was something from Stevens very young memory.
And thats the point of view, the real point of view.
So, guess what?
And I had to do it right on the spot.
There was no preparation.
You cant prepare for something like that, which I thought was exciting.
This is the only time Ive ever been asked to do something like this in my career.
And I thought, OK, all right.
The invitation is out.
Show up, Judd, show up.
And thats all I did.
We never rehearsed anything.
Id never even met the kid before, Gabriel LaBelle.
We just looked in each others eyes, and we started.
And we never stopped.
What was your way to get into the character?
Hes coming because his sister has died, and hes come to mourn her.
And thats Stevens grandmother, OK?
Thatll get any actor to jump in and simply start from the beginning and see how far it goes.
I was actually afraid that I was going to be a little bit on the dangerous side.
Well, never mind a little bit, alot.
DEADLINE: To a younger man, someone like Uncle Boris can be very intimidating.
And you capture that very well.
But you see, I didnt know that.
I asked the master, Is that really what happened?
And heres his reaction: he smiled.
Maybe thats why he wanted me in this.
[Laughs] Oh, I dont know.
Theres always humor indrama, as far as I can see…
DEADLINE:Did you relate at all to Uncle Boris?
I was brought up in an old family.
I was like, Theyre all foreign, and they sound so foreign.
Thats the only thing I had, as a kid, to relate to.
I had nothing to do with my mothers family.
Nothing at all, except I had one cousin that was close to my age, but nothing else.
So, stuff like that gets absorbed and you dont even realize it.
I was brought up in Coney Island, where everything isnt even real.
So, putting that through my brain … Its kind of dreamy, you know what I mean.
I dont know where its coming from either.
You kind of show up and you speak from a long time ago.
I was never in the circus.
I was never a lion tamer.
I was never a silent film actor.
I never had an accent.
But there it was.
It was right in me.
HIRSCH: No, but I did have a Polish uncle.
My mother was separated, you see, and we were poor.
My uncle was a postal worker, but he was like one of those guys from someplace else.
I never figured it out.
He was a very hairy man.
He would go swimming in the wintertime in the ocean, and he was so physically in your face.
He would often correct me, and my mother invited him to do that.
Listen to your Uncle Harry, is what she said.
And you know what?
He found me licking the bottle of a ketchup bottle, and he would hit me.
Id say, But I never learned how.
Hed say, Today, you will.
So, we go to the boardwalk.
He puts me on a bike and shoves me.
And Im telling you, I say, What are you?
I dont know how to…
He says, Keep going.
He went off his mind and couldnt come back.
Ithasto have an effect on you.
Well, that was my Uncle Boris, anyway.
Do you think its possible to make people become artists?
When Steven said, Hes the man that made me become a director, he didnt really mean that.
And he was going to recognize it.
Because hes young, he wouldnt know it.
Now, when I was young, I wasnt an actor.
I was never going to be an actor.
There was nothing about acting.
I was a kid.
I went to school.
I went to college.
I graduated as a physicist, and I went to art school.
I worked as a junior engineer.
Thats what I did.
Youre not going to do that.
You know what Im saying?
There was something in me, and I couldnt put my finger on it.
He said, You, Judd, have a gyroscope in you.
Itll take you to the place [you should probably get to].
You dont have to worry, but you wont know youre going there.
And I said, What the heck does that mean?
He said, You always know what you dont want to do.
And I said, Can you put a title on that?
He said, Yes.
Its called negatively inspired.
I wasnt smart enough, intellectually smart enough, to know that thats where I was going.
Now, look, I wasnt brought up in a theatrical family.
DEADLINE:Shouldnt that be the title of your autobiography,Negatively Inspired?
HIRSCH: I think that was a good description!
I was 18, graduating high school.
And afterwards, even into my 20s…
Remember, its a very impressionable age.
So, you start posing, I think thats the word: posing.
I got that from somewhere.
It starts to imagine itself as something that it cannot possibly put up the goods for.
I mean, Id go to the movies and imagine myself as some of those people.
And you cant, but you’re able to if you live it through your own mind.
Well, its dreamland, and I guess thats how we all get where were going.
We always dream something.
We always dream of it.
DEADLINE:How did acting come into your life?
HIRSCH: It was a great need for attention when I was in school.
I went to so many schools that nobody knew who I was, because I couldnt make a friend.
We moved 12 times before I was in third grade, and I went to about four schools.
So, nobody actually knew me.
Wed move in the middle of a term, and Id have to announce to the class my name.
Theyd say, Heres our new boy.
And Id say, Judd Hirsch, but they never got the first name right for the whole year.
Theyd say, John, sit in the first seat, second row.
But I was too shy.
I couldnt say, Here we go again.
Its not John, its Judd.
And someone would say, Jedidiah?
No, its not.
And someone would say, Jim.
I was called everything but my real name.
Somehow people came to me.
Thats the only way I could get attention.
And then I knew there, right there: Youre in the wrong place, Judd.
You got to go someplace where you’re able to actually do that [for a living].
And I saw the American Academy of Dramatic Arts while I was hanging out down in Manhattan.
I was working then, and no, I was not an actor.
I was just trying to survive.
I walked in, and they said, What do you want?
I said, I dont want you to tell me how to act.
Just tell mewhatto act.
But thats how brazen I was.
Like, Im an actor already.
Show me what it is that you do!
[Laughs] And thats how it started.
I mean really, truly it was like a dare.
Do you dare go on that ride?
This isnotgoing to be real but Im going in.
You know what I mean?
DEADLINE:What was your first professional acting job?
HIRSCH: Professional means you were paid for it, right?
DEADLINE:Presumably, yes.
The first part that I did was inA Thousand Clownsby Herb Gardner.
I remember getting the audition.
I thought, OK, Ill audition for that.
So, I walk into the audition, and they said, OK, read the part of Murray.
I say, What?
No, I didnt come here for that.
I came here for Chuckles the Chipmunk.
They said, Oh no.
Why would you think that?
I mean, it was the beginning.
I didnt know what was going to happen to me.
They said, No, just read the part of Murray, the lead.
So, I read it, I get the part, and Im off and running.
I said, Aw, crap, I would be more interested in playing that guy.
Its too bad you got Andy.
They said, Why would you think so?
The mistake in my life, right?
DEADLINE:Did you knowTaxiwas going to be the big hit that it was?
HIRSCH: I did.
I said, I just dont want to be in television right now.
Im 42 years old.
I want to travel.
I want to go to Europe.
So, I said, No, forget about it.
He said, Well, they want to know if you want to read the script.
I said, OK, Ill read the script.
Oh my God, itll be half my life already.
He said, So, what do we do?
I said, Make them an offer they cannot accept.
He said, Whats that?
I said, You know.
You know what it is.
Its called money, conditions, billing, whatever you want to call it.
So, he gives them this whole thing.
We were not afraid to do that.
And he comes back, and he says, OK.
They accepted everything, except they still have a question about billing.
But they did not get from me how I wanted to be billed.
Its an ensemble show, alright?
Im one of the stars of the show.
Its me, and Danny DeVito, and this guy, and this guy, and this guy.
All right, so along comes opening night…
It was the most ridiculous thing Ive ever seen in my life.
I had no idea what the opening of the show would look like.
We all were there for the first time to watch the pilot, on a TV set.
And it comes on with my name before the title.
The first words onscreen are Judd Hirsch.
And I think, Thats not the name of the show… Id never seen it before.
Ive never seen a situation comedy with the name of the actor on top.
This was their idea.
To this day, let me tell you, I still dont know why they did that.
And nobodys ever explained it to me.
you’re free to call Jim Brooks.
Jim Brooks, the guy who was the major writer.
Ive said that to him, and all he does is laugh.
I said, What the hell were you guys thinking?
I was a stage actor.
You go ask him.
It really was embarrassing because the rest of the cast was sitting in the same room.
DEADLINE:A quick question about Andy Kaufman.
What are your memories of him?
HIRSCH: He was such a normal guy.
We all knew him the same way because he was sort of loaning himself out to do the show.
He didnt want to have to rehearse every day.
So, to get him, it was a special contract.
Wed do the reading, and then hed go home.
So, we kept on wondering, When Andy comes in, will he know all the lines?
And, yes, he did.
He played other people.
Famously, actually, he had signed two contracts withTaxi.
We all had to pretend it wasnt Andy.
You could hear the reverberations while it was going on.
And he was never going to play the part for long.
That was the character.
He wanted to prove it wasnt him.
I would love to know how Andy remembered it, because he would never tell you that was him.
And they played the game with him.
Well, I guess thats our business.
DEADLINE:AfterTaxi, where did you go from there?
HIRSCH: Id always go back to the stage.
We had hiatuses from about February to July.
So, I would go back and do a play because thats where I belong.
DEADLINE:What kind of plays appeal to you?
HIRSCH: Somehow, I think thats where I was really born.
Everything else feels a little bit on the fake side.
You cannot ever know exactly what you just did.
So, it all seems a little [fake].
And that challenge made me an actor.
I always want to be believed.
Im doing that to you right now!
I want to be believed.
DEADLINE:[Laughing] I believe you!
HIRSCH: And its because I know the truth.
You dont play anything but the truth.
Youre given a script.
What are you going to do with it?
You cant fake it.
Youve got to put together all the things that are true about the character youre playing.
If you dont like the writing then, of course, dont play it.
If this thing is no good, dont play it.
But thats not what happened to me.
What happened to me is I got in with some really good people.
Lanford Wilson, for instance.
He actually wrote a play for me.
It won the Pulitzer Prize in 1980.
I was nominated for a Tony for that one.
I was nominated for an Academy Award forOrdinary Peoplethe same year.
And I was nominated once again [for a Primetime Emmy] forTaxi.
All three in one year.
But I was nominated for all three.
DEADLINE: Had you been reluctant to go into movies?
No, I wanted to.
I just didnt know whether… How do you say this?
He wanted the agent so that he could get sent up for television shows.
He wanted to make a living.
So, he sent the agent his credits.
To me, thats insulting, because thats where I came from.
So, I thought that was the business.
But they didnt do that to me.
DEADLINE:What was your first big movie role?
HIRSCH: God, what was it?
I mean,Ordinary Peoplereally was the one.
I did a few before that, but, lets put it this way, they were not major.
Well, they were good enough pictures, but they were not major pictures to the extent thatOrdinary Peoplewas.
So, I got very lucky doing that.
And he said, Yes.
I said, Can I read it?
The guy I was going to play, is obese in the book.
He doesnt know how to operate his own radio.
And I thought, What a wonderful idea.
I said, Wouldnt it be wonderful if he said, Im not going back there anymore.
Because what really happens is he does go back, and its completely successful.
And Robert Redford conceived it that way.
You, he said, are going to hug this kid.
And I said, Oh, crap.
Youre going to hear from the Psychologists Society.
They dont do that.
He said, You will.
I said, Youre going to have to pay for that.
And the kid says, You are?
And I say, Count on it.
So, there was a shot where I hugged the kid.
And we spent alotof time on that shot.
Robert put a track around us and he rotated the camera.
Robert said, Dont think about where the camera is.
Dont worry about that.
He said, Thank you, great.
And that was, I think, the last scene I did.
I went back to doTaxibecause I was still doing that.
And then I met Robert one day, walking into Paramount.
So, I said, Hey, Robert, howd it go?
Good, he said, Really good.
I said, People have told me that the pictures going to be quite good.
He said, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I said, What was that scene like?
Howd that scene come out where you put the camera in a circle and went around us?
He said, I cut it.
I said, What!?
He said it was repetitive.
But it didnt fit.
So, you see, I dont have control over those wonderful things that I did.
And thereby hangs a tale.
DEADLINE:About what?
HIRSCH: Im going to say thank you for listening.
DEADLINE:Im a very good listener.
How did I become an actor?
What does it feel like doing it?
How do you get chosen for this role or that?
Im telling you; Im talking from inside some sort of suit or mask.
I cant see myself knowing these things.
HIRSCH: Im not sure that I really know that.
Im telling you the truth!
I had to play Michelle Williamss father [in Reichardts filmShowing Up].
She doesnt do things that are terribly dramatic, if you know what Im saying.
Its her feeling about who you are that makes her comfortable that youre in the movie.
She does movies that way, which I truly appreciate.
DEADLINE:I can see why the Safdie brothers would be interested in you.
Were you particularly drawn to them?
HIRSCH: Theres another one.
I dont get it.
I really dont get it.
[Laughs] I dont know what heck they were talking about.
I truly dont know.
Why was I supposed to be…?
DEADLINE:But theres a strong New York aesthetic there.
HIRSCH: I think thats what it was.
It was a tough movie.
Not for me, but it was a tough movie.
DEADLINE:Why was it tough?
HIRSCH: Yeah, because Adam Sandler dies!
The character gets shot!
And I said, What the hell do you want me for with that silly name?
[The character is called Gooey.]
They said, It was a real relative of ours.
Thats why we have that name.
I said, OK.
I said, Ill tell you why Ill do it.
They said, Why?
I said, Because he dies!
Its expected, but itsnotexpected.
And I think thats exactly what should have happened.
It could be a criminal, likeThe Postman Always Rings Twice.
He did a boxing movie.
They always die at the end!
Before that, everything had to end with a happy ending.
No longer did the law always win in the end.
I thought, Yeah, yeah, I want to be in a movie where I die.
DEADLINE: And did you?
What movies have you died in?
DEADLINE:How did you die?
HIRSCH: I got shot.
[Pause] I didnt enjoy the way I died in any movie.
DEADLINE:Last question.
Whatwould you pick out if youre doing a clip reel of your movies?
What would be your highlights?
Theres never a total satisfaction.
And he considered that the best picture he ever did.
He just didnt believe them completely.
